Long before the first presidential debate caused an uproar about replacing Joe Biden, Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer had been considered a possible alternative or successor to the current president. Now, those calls are getting louder and more urgent.

Katie Couric sat down with the two-term governor the morning before that fateful debate, and Whitmer said she was flattered by the consideration but shut down talk of running for the highest office in the land anytime soon. “The truth is I’m not thinking about [a presidential campaign] right now,” she said. “I’ve got two-and-a-half more years of being governor. We have to get through this crucial election. There’s a lot of work that I want to get done.”

Despite Biden’s attempts to ease concerns, his weak debate performance has raised some eyebrows about his candidacy and caused internal strife within the party about whether he should leave the Democratic ticket altogether.

Keep reading for Whitmer’s perspective on why she’s still backing Biden and the work ahead of them in his reelection campaign. And listen to the full interview below to hear what she has to say about abortion and other key issues going into the 2024 election, plus the foiled plot to kidnap her and violently overthrow the state’s government.

Katie Couric: I know you’re part of President Biden’s reelection campaign, but I wanted to ask you about something he said during the 2020 election. Joe Biden appeared at a campaign stop, and he was with you, Kamala Harris, and Cory Booker, and he said he viewed himself as a bridge. I interviewed Vice President Harris not too long ago and asked, “Did you think that bridge was going to take four years to build or eight years to build?” Because I think a lot of people really did think that Joe Biden, given his age, was going to be a one-term president. WTF, Gretchen Whitmer? 

Gretchen Whitmer: [Biden] has gotten so much done in four years. He wants to continue the work for the next four. I know people keep saying, “Well, what about this? What about that?” The field is set and we’ve got a very stark choice in front of us in this country. The good news is for future elections, there’s a very deep bench of incredibly talented Democratic leaders in this country right now. I think about all of my colleagues — everyone from Josh Shapiro to Wes Moore to Michelle Lujan Grisham to Gavin Newsom, JB Pritzker, Mitch Landrieu… It really is a deep bench of incredibly talented people, deeper than we’ve had in a long time. So I think it’s exciting to think about what the next election will look like. But right now, we have a stark choice. So that’s WTF, Katie [laughs].

One person you left out of that list is you, Gretchen Whitmer.

Well, I’m honored to be included in that group. 

Whenever I think of future leaders, inevitably, your name comes up, which is a really nice compliment and an incredible show of support. Does the idea of potentially one day running for president appeal to you? That’s a huge thing, given some of the threats to your life and family already, as well as the grueling nature of running for president for any person, man or woman. How do you think about it right now? 

Well, the truth is, I’m not thinking about it right now. I’ve got two and a half more years of being governor. We have to get through this crucial election. There’s a lot of work that I want to get done. 

The possibility of that is an overwhelming thought that would have to be given the proper attention and consideration. And I’m not in any position to do that right now. So when people say, “What are you going to do after you’re done being governor?” I like to say, “I’m going to walk the earth for a year and figure out what it is I want to do next.” I say that kind of joking, but I do care about where we are. I do want to be a part of a solution, making room at the table for voices that haven’t always been there. And if I’ve got something to contribute, whether as a candidate or a supporter of a great candidate, I will stay engaged one way or another. 

I also think that if your head’s not in the game for what you’re doing right now — you’ve got a huge role, a lot of responsibility — if you’re thinking too much about the future, you’re going to screw up the present, right? 

Absolutely, you can’t take your eye off the ball. I mean, these are heavy-duty jobs, and people are relying on us. 

And one thing people are relying on you for is to help Joe Biden win the state of Michigan. Right now, President Biden and former President Trump are running neck and neck there. How are you going to do that? 

I’ve told everyone, “Don’t clutch your pearls when we’re down two points. Don’t celebrate when we’re up two points. Just make peace with the fact that this is going to be close all the way through the election.” I always remind people that in the months before my reelection, everyone was writing my political obituary…And I won by almost 11 points because we showed up and got into every community. And that’s the kind of work that we’re continuing to do on behalf of President Biden. People out there are good, hardworking people. They’re busy, and they’re not consuming information the way you and I are. They’ve got to get the kids off to school, get to work, and pay the bills. People are trying to get by. It’s a hard time for a lot of folks.

Do you think President Biden is really focused enough on the price of groceries and gas? That seems to be an animating factor in people’s feelings about these two candidates right now. 

You can’t tell someone how to feel. You can’t change the stress that someone’s feeling and their household budget by saying, “Well, look, we’ve got historically low unemployment, and take-home wages are up, and our economy’s better than other countries.” That doesn’t make them feel better. We’ve got to ask, “What is it that you need? What can we do? And did you know that the president has helped you keep more money in your pocket because of all these investments that he’s making, whether it’s in infrastructure, clean energy, or debt relief?” And so I think drawing those connections will be crucial for us as we’re going into the next few months. But it’s going to be tense, and we’ve got a lot of work to do. 

Michigan has the largest population of Arab-American and Muslim voters. Many of them strongly oppose President Biden’s handling of the Israel-Hamas War. And you’ve made great efforts to reach out to the Arab-American community in your state. But how concerned are you about how they’ll be voting in Michigan and about how young people feel about this issue?

I’m concerned. I definitely see the path through Michigan, and we’re working hard to ensure that we earn the support of all of these communities. I know that a Trump Part 2 would make things measurably worse. And I think a lot of people know that, whether it’s around the Muslim ban or how he talks about the war that’s playing out in Gaza with Israel.

All that being said, we’ve got to recognize that a lot of people are hurting right now. In Michigan, we’ve got a huge contingent of Arab American voters, many of whom are also Muslim voters, some of whom are also Palestinians. They’re not all one monolithic group, but most are one or two degrees of separation from someone who’s died in the fighting, someone who’s trying to feed their family still over in Gaza. There’s a lot of guilt being here and sadness that American dollars are going into the pain that their loved ones are feeling over there. Also, we’ve got a robust Jewish community that’s hurting as well. 

Straddling those two groups and thinking dialectically must be really difficult. 

It is. And these communities have lived in harmony for decades in Michigan and have been part of the coalition that I’ve had the support of. So I do think that there’s more work to do with a lot of these voters. 

I think we will earn back the support of most of them. But I think that we’re going to need to earn the support of a lot of new voters, too. And young people are seeing the humanitarian crisis playing out and they’re very upset about it. I’ve had hard conversations with my own kids to know that they are feeling very empathetic and sad and demoralized and angry about the violence that they see playing out every day. So I think that my job in Michigan is to make sure both these communities feel seen, heard, supported, and safe here at home, but also try to bridge that divide. And it takes a lot of work, but it starts with hard conversations and continues with them.

And a lot of listening, I imagine, too, right? 

Listening is a superpower. I’ve learned so much from people, and if you ask them what they need, what they want, or what’s going on in their lives, they will tell you that politicians who make the mistake of not doing that are missing what’s really happening with people and the ability to help them. 

---

This conversation has been lightly edited for clarity.