Despite his many legal battles, it doesn’t look like Donald Trump is going anywhere when it comes to second-term ambitions. In fact, after his primary wins in New Hampshire and Iowa, his chances of becoming the Republican presidential nominee are growing even higher. This, of course, is expected to set up yet another contentious rematch between he and President Biden — but Vice President Kamala Harris remains confident that voters will ultimately choose “a leader who is competent and not someone who invites and creates chaos.” 

During a recent interview with our very own Katie Couric, she also emphasized Biden administration’s accomplishments over the last four years, which she says don’t get enough praise. Harris cites everything from having lowered prescription drug costs and reduced child poverty to improving the building of bridges, as well as other infrastructure advancements across the country. “We haven’t taken adequate credit, frankly,” she says. “And we’ve got to do a better job of getting the word out about what we have accomplished, and who did it.” 

As the 2024 general election creeps ever closer, tensions are rising. In her conversation with Katie (which also included discussions of abortion rights and foreign policy), Harris outlined what she thinks the Biden administration has done best, and why she thinks Gen Z — the generation born from 1997 to 2012 — could play a pivotal role in November’s race.

Katie Couric: I want to turn to the accomplishments of the Biden administration — an infrastructure bill, the CHIPS Act, and the Safer Communities Act addressing gun violence, to name three legislative accomplishments. Low unemployment, millions of jobs created, inflation down, and the stock market is up, and yet President Biden’s approval ratings are at historic lows — the president is at 38, and you at 37. Why do you think that is?

Kamala Harris: Well, first of all, if I listened to polls, I would’ve never run for my first office, or probably my second or third, for that matter. So I only put so much stock in polls.

But it must be discouraging.

Well, no, here’s the thing: We have to earn the reelect. That is, without any question, the right place to be in a democracy. You have to earn the reelect. You are correct — we have historic accomplishments in terms of the economy, what we’ve done to move forward science, technology, and investment in the American workforce, raising wages, [and] bringing down prices… Historic work has happened, no question. It is incumbent on us to let people know who brung it to them, frankly. Because here’s the thing, Katie: If you want to look at polling, let’s also look at the fact that if you ask people how they feel about the fact that we finally kept the cost of insulin for seniors at $35 a month — [it was] hugely popular. And now, we have allowed Medicare to negotiate drug prices finally, which means we’re capping the annual cost of prescriptions for seniors at $2,000. They’re not gonna pay more than $2,000 a year for their prescription drugs.

If you ask people, “How do you feel about the fact that too many seniors had to determine whether they could fill their prescriptions or fill the refrigerator?” [The cap on drug prices was] very, very popular. If you ask students who’ve graduated with debt…

And Biden just announced today additional debt relief…

We have now erased the debt of over three and a half million people. [That was] very popular. If you look at what we’re doing right now — active projects in all 50 states that are about upgrading roads and bridges, repairing streets and airports… Hugely popular. And if you drive down most streets in America, you’ll see some construction site or a crane — and you can probably point to the Biden-Harris administration to know that work is starting to happen because we finally got the infrastructure work done. The previous administration kept talking about “infrastructure week” — we actually made it happen.

So you’re right, we have a lot of accomplishments. And I think what the American people want most in their leaders is that we actually get things done. We haven’t taken adequate credit for that, frankly. And we’ve got to do a better job of getting the word out about what we have accomplished, and who did it.

You do very well among young voters, and among people of color — both Black and Latino voters. President Biden isn’t doing as well as he was in 2020, when he won young people by more than 20 points. Now he’s tied with Donald Trump. People believe you’re a good messenger to bring some of those voters back into the fold to support Joe Biden and not just Kamala Harris. How are you going to do that?

Well, part of it is getting the heck out of D.C., which I’ve been doing. In fact, after the Dobbs decision came down, I decided to get on the road ahead of the midterms and go to purple, red, and blue states in almost equal measure, talking with folks and listening to folks. And I started a college tour last fall, where I met with over 15,000 students — Gen Z, who, by the way, I think is a terrific generation.

I know you love Gen Z. You said it on The View. 

I love Gen Z, I really do, because they have lived experience — they’ve only known the climate crisis, and most of them have endured active shooter drills between kindergarten and 12th grade. During the height of their reproductive years, [they] saw the [Supreme] court take away an essential right for them. And so traveling the country makes a difference — to remind people that they are being seen and that what they do matters, including that they vote. And so I’m gonna keep doing that.

Are you worried about Gen Z turning out? That’s key to your reelection.

Well, like I’ve said many times, because it’s a mantra for me during election time — there are two ways to run, either without an opponent or scared. You gotta earn it, and you got to get out there and do the work. And I’m prepared to do it.

I wasn’t going to ask you about Joe Biden’s age, because after all, Donald Trump is just three years younger. But some people seem fixated on Biden’s age…

It’s ’cause they have nothing to run on, Katie.

Well, now they’re running on immigration.

Which they could actually participate in fixing. They’re running on immigration because they like having an issue, but [we] offered them the ability to solve it, and they don’t want to participate in that solution. 

But the age thing, according to almost every poll, is an issue. And I was curious to get your take on this: Four years ago, at a rally in Detroit, then-candidate Biden was at a rally with you, Cory Booker, and Gretchen Whitmer. He said, “Look, I view myself as a bridge, not as anything else. There’s an entire generation of leaders you saw stand behind me. They are the future of the country.” And I wondered if when you heard that, did you think that was a four-year bridge or an eight-year one?

I want to get to the heart of what you’re raising, which is his age. I spend a lot of time with Joe Biden, be it in the Oval Office or the Situation Room. And I can tell you that this is someone who is tireless in terms of working on behalf of the American people. Joe Biden comes from a background and a place in his heart and soul where he cares so deeply about working people, about families. We talk about his empathy because he actually is concerned about the suffering of other people and works to alleviate that suffering. He is bold, and it’s because of all of that that we have been able to pass transformational work, bipartisan work, when we’ve been able to do it. A large part of it is ’cause Joe Biden — and I’ve watched him — sits in that Oval Office with the leaders on the two sides, and helps people figure out that compromise is actually a good thing. Solutions are a good thing.

I have been in the Oval Office when heads of state from around the world, in particular our allies, call up Joe Biden and ask for his advice and he gives it. It’s Joe Biden who is — without any question, and leaders around the world would admit it — the one who was able to bring together NATO to support Ukraine. So this whole issue that they are raising about his age is, again, because they’ve got nothing to run on. And I just think that we’ve got to get beyond this, because I think ultimately what the American people deserve is that their leaders perform by way of solutions and uplifting the condition of their lives.

I’m glad you used that word, “perform,” because I was listening to something Hillary Clinton said recently about performative politics. 

That’s a double entendre, isn’t it?

The idea is that people who are doing the hard work of the nation’s business are not performative. I thought that was such an insightful observation because people doing the work are — let’s face it — not that entertaining.

In the true sense of the word “perform,” in terms of, Are you actually doing anything?, Joe Biden’s getting a whole lot of stuff done. First the CHIPS and Science Act — we’re going to be investing in the future of technology competing on a global level. We have created over 850 new manufacturing jobs. We’re bringing manufacturing back to America. This is, again, where it’d be nice to have a little bit more bipartisan support — to extend the child tax credit in our first year. By pushing it through, we reduced child poverty by over 50 percent. That’s the kind of performing I think people want.

But how are you gonna get that messaging out? 

That’s why I’m talking to you! [Laughs]

But as much as I would like to say the entire country will listen to or watch this, it feels like that somehow that messaging isn’t getting through.

That’s what campaigns are for.

But people like David Axelrod are saying, “Let’s get going, people…” 

I appreciate where he’s coming from — we all know what’s at stake, right? We talked about a lot of issues today, you and I, most of which are not binary. These are complex issues. [But] November of 2024 is binary — on the other side you’ve got someone who has said that if he were back in office, he would weaponize the Department of Justice. Someone who has openly applauded insurrectionists as patriots, and who has said that they will go after their political enemies and applauds dictators, indicating that he would be one. So let’s be really clear about what’s at stake. Of course there’s then a desire to get out there, because we can’t lose this democracy. We can’t. And I am motivated by that passion.

As a former prosecutor and a former attorney general.  I’m sure you’re familiar with these 91 criminal indictments Donald Trump is currently facing. And I’m curious, why do you think so many of his supporters are willing to turn a blind eye to those indictments and support him regardless?

Well, let’s see if they do in November.

Do you think minds will be changed as these court cases proceed?

I think that the majority of Americans who are going to make the decision about the outcome of the election want a leader who is competent and not someone who invites and creates chaos. I think they are going to vote for a leader who respects and protects the rule of law — not someone who breaks it. I think they want someone who actually understands that the real strength of a leader is not based on who you beat down, but based on who you lift up.

Does it blow your mind that some people don’t agree with that, though?

I don’t judge that. I am just telling you that I know what is at stake, and we are going to spend every day reminding the American people of what we have accomplished and what will be the impact of this election. And it will be profound, and it will be in many ways existential, I believe.

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This conversation has been lightly edited for clarity.