Justin Baldoni is a producer, director, and actor who is probably best known for his long-running stint on Jane the Virgin. Across the show’s five seasons, Baldoni played Rafael Solano, the sensitive, reformed playboy who fell in love with the titular Jane, a virgin. 

But the actor, whose acting work tends to embody a certain type of shirtless machismo masculinity, is on a new mission to help change the way men — and society — think about masculinity. It’s an idea he first explored on social media, and then in a Ted Talk in 2017, and then in a web series, and now in a memoir-ish book called Man Enough: Undefining My Masculinity.

On this episode of Next Question with Katie Couric, Katie and Justin discuss the often toxic grip masculinity has on our society and what Justin thinks we can all do to change that. They also talk about Justin’s personal exploration — as a son, husband, and father — of what it means to be a man. Below are some of the highlights. And when you want more, be sure to listen to the full podcast. 

Baldoni on the inspiration for his new web series and book that explores masculinity

“What led me on the journey is that I was tired of hurting people. And I was tired of hurting myself. I was tired of putting on masks and armor that I didn’t know I was wearing. I was tired of acting different based on who I was around. I was tired of puffing up my chest when I was around certain men that I felt insecure around or women. And that happens over and over and over again. And I just didn’t know why I just couldn’t be unapologetically me. and that led me on this journey over time…I noticed this pattern of men reposting [the Ted Talk] and attacking me and calling me names and questioning my intentions and talking about my looks and saying all of these insults. Women were praising it. And then what I thought was interesting was men were privately writing me and thanking me. So there was this very strange distinction between the public perception of what it meant to be a man and how men were demonizing me and saying I was a traitor to my own gender. How women were publicly applauding me, but the men who needed it were privately writing me. And I went, okay, this is, this is a symptom of a bigger problem. And then that’s when I went deeper and I realized that I needed a different platform.”

Baldoni on how he’s mindfully raising his kids

“I’m thinking about how the world’s going to be socializing my daughter and my son and how the world’s going to be telling my daughter that she has to be one thing and how my son has to be another thing….How do we start to reverse that damage early on to build strong foundations? And so we teach our daughter at home the opposite — that she can take up all the space she wants. That she can be loud, that she can take physical risks, that she can be brave and strong and tough…At the same time, not having her kill off the sensitive parts of herself like we make boys do. That you can be a full human being. And we teach our boy that it’s OK to ask questions, that it’s OK to be sensitive, that it’s OK to cry, that it’s OK to ask for help when he’s hurting, to express himself. That it’s also OK to not take fiscal risks. We’ve gotta be mindful of the space that he takes up because the world is going to tell him he can take up as much as he wants. So that’s one way. That’s one thing that we’re doing while also just allowing them to be who they are and not trying to change them.”

Baldoni on how his wife holds him accountable

“I think what makes my marriage so beautiful is that she holds me accountable. There’s times that happened in my marriage when Emily would be like, ‘You can’t do that. You can’t say that to me.’ And I’m like, ‘oh, you’re totally right. I’m sorry.’ Because we’re constantly evolving and unlearning.”

Find out more about Man Enough and where you can buy your copy at HarperCollins.

Interested in seeing Katie when she goes on her Going There book tour this fall? Find out when and where she’s heading and get your tickets at Ticketmaster.com.