Author Franklin Foer shares behind-the-scenes stories about the Biden administration and explains why we should have more confidence in him despite his age or family scandals.
I love books about American politics and presidents, no matter how dysfunctional our system seems to be. Franklin Foer’s new book, The Last Politician: Inside Joe Biden’s White House and the Struggle for America’s Future, about President Biden’s first two years is a great window into his leadership style, as well as his successes and failures. I talked to Frank about what it was like being a fly on the White House wall.
Katie Couric: First of all, congratulations on your book! It couldn’t be more timely. Can you tell us about the access you had to the Biden administration? They seem to run a very tight ship. How did you convince them?
Franklin Foer: One of the most difficult journalistic skills, at least for me, is patience. Sometimes, you just need to stick around. When a journalist begins to talk with a government official, the initial conversations are really nothing more than a recitation of talking points. But sources tend to respect reporters who keep coming back, who keep showing curiosity, and who exhibit good faith. (Or at least, they eventually regard them with less suspicion.) Ultimately, the best material comes after an event has ended — like after a bill has passed or when a crisis has died down — after the rest of the media has turned its attention to the next story. Participants in big events want to tell their stories for the sake of posterity. So I think I benefited from taking far longer to report this book than I promised my publisher that I would!
So I’ll bite: Why did you call the book The Last Politician?
Thank you for biting! Joe Biden is a strangely remote figure for most of the public. It’s a little bit his age. It’s also that he’s just not a sensationalistic character, or not by recent standards. He doesn’t advise people to swallow bleach, or flush documents down the White House toilet. But he’s actually a fascinating character, filled with quirks and brimming with human qualities.
One of the most interesting things about him is his faith (yes, it’s almost religious for him) in compromise and persuasion. That really goes against the grain of our polarized times. In fact, he thinks of his presidency as a test: Can the practice of politics still deliver things that citizens need? Can it help us find a way to coexist, despite our polarization?
You cover some pivotal moments in the Biden presidency, including the pullout from Afghanistan, which pretty much everyone agrees was a disaster. Given President Biden’s foreign policy credentials, how was this so botched?
The Afghanistan section of my book makes for a harrowing read, and it was harrowing to report. I interviewed all the officials who participated in the evacuation of Kabul after the fact. I really felt like a therapist to all the traumatized aides, generals, and cabinet secretaries who navigated those difficult days.
What I’ve concluded is that Afghanistan is really two stories. The first is about a failure of imagination: The administration never allowed itself to truly consider the worst-case scenario. I’m not sure that I would describe this as incompetence, since none of the intelligence agencies forecasted that chaos would arrive when it did. I think the failure stemmed from a human impulse, to shield oneself from truly thinking through the black swan possibility.
The second is a story about improvisation: When the Afghan government collapsed, the administration began to frantically move to limit the damage. It ran a constant stream of flights out of Kabul. Overnight, practically, it managed to erect an international network of dorms to house refugees, it needed to feed those refugees. And in the end, the administration managed to extract 124,000 Afghans. These stories of failure and creativity will live side by side in the history books. And the officials involved will be forever haunted by the experience.
Let’s talk about the war in Ukraine. You give the president high marks for his handling of that ongoing conflict, writing, “It was his skills as a politician that mattered most. He brought along his compatriots — and his allies — so that they went beyond their comfort zone, to provide the Ukrainians the sort of robust support that the United States might bestow upon an ally in a world war.” What were some of the biggest challenges he faced? I thought it was fascinating that Zelensky pissed Biden off.
Remember, Biden has been involved in Ukraine’s politics far longer than Zelensky. (As Obama’s Vice President, Ukraine was part of his portfolio.) When they first met, Zelensky was a relative rookie. He was a comedian learning how to do a very difficult job. Despite Ukraine being dependent on American support, Zelensky kept prodding Biden to deliver on impossible demands. Biden was, well, unimpressed by his persistent style. Over time, they grew closer, but a hint of that initial tension has always remained. Zelensky is very effective at communicating with the American public. His requests for help are emotionally powerful — and Biden sees it as his job to impose some restraint so that the war doesn’t dangerously escalate. Biden once told Zelensky, “You’d love nothing more than to draw us into World War III.”
You also explore the relationship between Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. There seems to be frustration on both sides. Can you help us unpack that and why Vice President Harris hasn’t made a better impression on voters?
I have incredible sympathy for any vice president. It’s a tricky, tricky job — and nearly everyone who has occupied Kamala Harris’ chair has struggled. I think it’s even harder to be a former vice president’s vice president. And Harris is very aware of the fact she is a historic first. More than that, she’s aware that any mistakes she might make will hurt the prospects of those who follow her example. I think she’s allowed herself to spend too much time worrying about the possibility of errors; she’s so afraid of gaffes that she doesn’t communicate as sharply as she does in private sessions. From what I gather, she’s usually a very incisive presence in meetings, a tough-minded prosecutor who doesn’t accept easy answers. It would be great for her if she could project that to the public, without relentlessly self-editing the words that come out of her mouth.
Do you think President Biden is frustrated that he doesn’t get more credit for some of his legislative achievements? Why do you think that’s the case? Is some of it in the marketing?
He should be frustrated. His administration has been productive. He very successfully rolled out the vaccine, averted economic collapse, ended America’s longest war, made the biggest investment in infrastructure since the Eisenhower administration, jumpstarted the U.S. semiconductor industry, funded alternative energies that will massively reduce carbon emissions, passed bipartisan gun control legislation, repaired frayed alliances, and gave Ukraine the arms that prevented Russia from conquering Kyiv.
But…he’s not been remotely effective at trumpeting this. I have many theories for why this is so. His age will always create the impression that he’s not active. As a communicator, he’s limited. Also, I think he tended to throw himself into the details of governing. The man loves to bury himself in the weeds of policy. (That quality surprised me. I never thought of him as a wonk.) He could stand to devote more attention to selling himself and his accomplishments.
There’s a lot of talk about Biden’s age as you know. A new poll from The Associated Press and the NORC Center for Public Affairs Research found that 77 percent of respondents said Biden is too old to be effective for four more years — 89 percent of Republicans and 69 percent of Democrats. How is the White House going to counter that narrative as we head to 2024?
They need to embrace age as a virtue. There’s no hiding the fact that he’s old, but I would make an argument like this: Having been around the block, he knows what he’s doing. Wielding power is hard. It takes trial and error. Biden has lived through enough history to be able to effectively navigate his way through it. Yes, his gait might be labored, but he’s acquired wisdom that is hard to replicate.
Having said that, his opponents have questioned his lucidity. Do you find any signs or concerns about his mental acuity?
That’s a question I kept asking and asking. I’ve noticed that he’s not great at remembering names — and he’ll sometimes let his stories go on too long. (Then again, Joe Biden’s stories always have gone on too long!) But he’s really nothing like the Sleepy Joe figure that Fox News hypes. When he talks about foreign policy, for instance, I’ve seen him put on masterful presentations of grand strategy, very detailed, very nuanced, very commanding.
I’m curious if you were able to glean much about his relationship with his son Hunter Biden. He supports him, but increasingly Hunter seems to be a serious liability for his father…especially as right-wing media outlets continue to pound away at ethical issues when Hunter was on the board of the Ukrainian energy company Burisma. Is the White House worried about the political fallout?
This is the hardest subject because it’s not a political subject for him. It’s about a relationship between father and son. It’s about a family that has survived repeated trauma. There are scars; there is love. Republicans pick at this scandal because they know it is the President’s most tender spot. I don’t think he’s very adept at thinking strategically about Hunter Biden. Then again, I don’t know a parent who could manage that.
What impressed you most about the Biden administration?
I always knew about Biden’s empathy, but I had never connected it to his governing skills. He’s really good at sitting across from a foreign leader or a Republican senator and understanding their mind. He can figure out what they really want, and what they might be willing to truly sacrifice. He can identify their emotional touch points, that’s why he managed to quickly cut a debt ceiling deal with Republican speaker Kevin McCarthy. In that instance, Biden shelved his ego and let McCarthy be the one to talk to the press about their negotiations. He let McCarthy briefly cultivate the image that he was winning, while Biden kept getting most of what he wanted with the substance of the deal.
It’s why he’s been pretty good at building alliances with foreign leaders. Biden once told an aide, “You foreign policy guys, you think this is all pretty complicated. But it’s just like family dynamics.” There’s a lot of truth in that.
What about the ongoing travails of Donald Trump? He’s certainly stayed above the fray but do you spill any tea about Biden’s personal feelings toward his predecessor in the book?
When Biden came to office, his biggest task was persuading people to take the vaccine. I was surprised to learn that he considered briefly enlisting Trump to help make the case for taking the jab to his voters.
Really, I think Trump is the dragon that Biden feels he is uniquely suited to slaying. If Trump weren’t running in 2024, I’m not convinced that Biden would feel such a strong need to run for reelection.
What was the biggest surprise writing this book?
Every time I thought Biden was headed for disaster — like when his signature Build Back Better bill collapsed — he managed to muster a revival. Perhaps that shouldn’t have surprised me. For a guy who has survived so much personal tragedy, he’s adept at the art of resilience.
