If you’re a lover of thrillers, you’ve probably come across Riley Sager's work. His books have sold millions of copies, and Hollywood adaptations of several titles are reportedly on the way. He’s known for his twisty, creepy tales with a supernatural twist — and he’s about to unveil his tenth novel in as many years.
The Unknown, out August 4, is about a group of actresses who travel to a remote island off the coast of Vermont to film a movie about a series of strange disappearances that took place 100 years earlier — and then the disappearances start happening again.
“I'm very proud of the book,” Sager tells Katie Couric Media. “It's a nice, spooky read, but not too spooky. I always try to walk that fine line because I don't want to put anyone off, but I still want to give them a chill now and then.”
For the uninitiated, Sager broke onto the thriller scene with his 2017 debut, Final Girls, about three women who are the sole survivors of killing sprees — but it wasn’t his first book as a published author. Nine years ago, he started publishing under the pseudonym Riley Sager (his real name is Todd Ritter) after a string of poor sales under his real name. That decision clearly worked out — nine out of his past nine books published under the pen name have all hit the NYT bestseller list — but it has drawn controversy from some critics who say he adopted a plausibly female persona to write from a female POV and sell books to a largely female audience. We caught up with Sager to see where he stands on that debate, how he got in the mindset of the characters for The Unknown, his most polarizing book, and more.
Katie Couric Media: I heard The Unknown has a lot of Easter eggs and references to your previous books.
Riley Sager: When I realized it was going to be my 10th book, I thought I'd make it a celebration of 10 years of writing as Riley Sager. I wanted to put in little nods to all of my books, whether it's the theme or setting, or even just outright Easter eggs. I thought that would be fun for readers who've been with me from the start.
I didn't want to be too obvious about it, though, because I didn't want it to be off-putting to people who've never read me before. I always try to keep the new reader in mind.
What was the inspiration for The Unknown, and how did you research it?
In 2002 or 2003, I was aimlessly searching the internet for spooky things, and I came across a tree in a swamp that had these white dresses hanging from it. No one knew who put them there, why they were there, or what it meant, but the mysteriousness of it all really fascinated me. I made a mental note: If I ever become a writer, I'm going to put that in a book. It wasn't until many, many years later that it finally occurred to me now is the time.
As far as depicting how women are treated in Hollywood, I read Ronan Farrow's book, Catch and Kill. It was horrifying, but also fascinating, to read what actresses go through. Terrible things happen to them all the time in Hollywood, and they're so afraid to talk about it because the boys' club could just shut them down, and they might literally never work again. It was very interesting to put my head in the space of these women and think, How can they do this and still have a career afterwards?
This book comes at an interesting time, amid cultural conversation about being in a post-Me Too era. Have you thought about that at all?
I'm not sure how we got here. I don't want to get too political, but there is this sense of, What is going on right now? I think the idea of a post-Me Too movement plays into the Epstein files, where people are not being held accountable. The good part about writing fiction is that in my world, I can hold people accountable, or have characters that do. One of the pleasant parts of writing this book was seeing these women take the initiative. Now, I'm not saying I agree with what they did in the end, and I'm hoping there will be many, many book club debates come August about whether these characters did the right things at the end of the day.
The Unknown is a cast of mostly women, some of whom are women of color. There's an ongoing debate in literature about who can tell which stories. Where do you stand?
There is a debate, and I do know that my name often comes up during this debate. It was really never my intention. It started with my first book, Final Girls. The horror trope is a final girl [the last surviving female protagonist of a killer who lives to tell her story], so I felt that I needed to write it from the point of view of a woman. That was really all the thought I gave it. After that, I focused on: Who is this character? How does she navigate the world? Why does she make the choices she makes?
I still write from that mindset, and for me, it's less about gender and more about character. The characters do happen to be women, and that's partly because I love reading books about strong women who get into crazy situations, and I want to write books like that. When I come up in this debate, I mostly want to back away and be like, "You guys talk it out. I really just want to have nothing to do with it and just write my books and do my own thing.”
Are there any trends in the literary landscape that you’re excited about?
The problem with trends is that as a writer, you can't really follow them because by the time your book is finished and published, that trend is gone. I have noticed more of a willingness to embrace the weird, which I very much like. There seem to be a lot more gothic-tinged thrillers of late, which is always a welcome thing.
I do try to keep up with what's going on in the thriller space to know what's hitting with readers. This summer, there are a ton of buzzy, high-concept books out there that I'm hoping to work my way through, time permitted — like Yesteryear and Count My Lies by my friend Sophie Stava.
Your books usually have a supernatural element. Do you believe in ghosts?
I get asked this question quite often, and my answer is always no. I don't believe it's physiologically possible. Yet, the idea of ghosts scares me very, very much. So that means I must believe it a little bit in the deep, dark recesses of my brain.
Still, there are things that cannot be explained. Those are the things that really creep me out, and I try to insert them into my books.
What’s the hardest part about writing 10 books in 10 years?
The twist is always the hardest part because so many authors right now are coming up with outrageously good twists, and they've really upped the game. It is hard to try to outdo yourself with every book.
The challenge is to keep the twist buried just enough that people will hopefully miss it, but then, if they go back and re-read it, they’ll see all the different seeds that had been planted. But you never know what people are going to latch onto or what they will miss entirely.
A famous example of this is with my book The House Across the Lake. During a book event, a woman stood up and said, "You gave us no warning about this twist,” and I had to say, “On page 77 or whatever it is, I have a character say exactly what is happening in that lake, and everyone just glossed over it.”
I do feel like The House Across the Lake is probably your most polarizing book. Do you have a favorite?
I love all of my books in different ways, but The House Across the Lake was the most fun I've ever had writing anything because the twist is so bonkers, and I was in a mood to embrace it fully. A lot of times, I second guess myself or think, Should I go here? Should I do this? With that book, I knew from the start, I'm doing it, and it's going to be a blast.
I knew that people were going to either love it or hate it, and that either way, it would be to the book's advantage because sometimes controversy breeds more sales. With that book, I had a feeling that people would be so strong in their feelings that, good or bad, they'd go to a friend and say, "You must read this book.”
Did it work?
I believe it did. It sold over a million copies, and that can't all be people who loved it. I suspect there are a lot of hate readers out there as well. With that book, I welcome it, because it's very divisive on purpose.
Finally, what have you been reading lately?
Right now, I'm reading The Children by Melissa Albert. It is fantastically written and intensely spooky. I'm enjoying it so far.
Sometimes I like to read nonfiction as a palate cleanser. I love a good Hollywood memoir — the juicier, the better.
