President Biden’s administration — as with so many before his — has been tasked with navigating some incredibly thorny issues, both at home and abroad. And when it comes to addressing the ongoing wars in Ukraine and Israel, we wanted to understand how his second in command, Vice President Kamala Harris, feels. Speaking with Katie during a recent sit-down interview, the VP made one thing clear: She believes the U.S. must continue to step up as a world leader.

“I’ve now met with over 150 world leaders — presidents, prime ministers, chancellors, and kings,” Harris tells Katie. “Many of them… look to us to be a leader on so many of these issues.”

There’s also the matter of the border crisis, which Harris acknowledges is a symptom of a much larger problem. “There’s no question our immigration system is broken and it needs to be fixed,” she says.

Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like these challenges are going away anytime soon. But the VP shares why is isn’t giving up on immigration reforms, and why the U.S. should continue to stand by its allies.

Katie Couric: I want to talk to you about immigration, because I think nearly everyone agrees that the system is broken, and that we need comprehensive immigration reform. Early on, I know you were tasked with understanding the root causes of the immigration crisis, but you’re not in charge of the border, which I think is important to point out. Having said that, 14 house Democrats joined Republicans in denouncing the Biden administration’s so-called “open door” policies as “a national security and public safety crisis.” So many big-city mayors across the country are saying this is an untenable situation, and 68 percent of Americans disapprove of the way the Biden administration has handled the border. How do you address that?

Kamala Harris: There’s no question our immigration system is broken and it needs to be fixed. And as with any problem, leaders will participate — true leaders — in the solution. So I’m going take you back to about three years ago, I think the day after our inauguration, when Joe Biden came in as president and me as vice president. The first bill that we offered was a bill to fix the immigration system.

And that’s when [Democrats] controlled both houses.

And Congress did not take [the bill] up. This is, first of all, not a new issue. But sadly, it has become so deeply partisan and the subject of political gamesmanship, when in fact the solutions are at hand. And we offered a solution early on and invited bipartisan work to fix this. In fact, we have right now a proposal for $14 billion so that we can put more resources to address this very situation. And we are trying to compel, in particular, some of the Republicans in Congress to participate in the solution. But sadly, we want to fix it and they want to run on it. They want a political issue to run on in November. 

It’s working, honestly.

Well, I don’t think that. Listen, again, I go back to where I started: The situation is such that the system is broken and it needs to be fixed. And we have offered a solution and real leaders ought to lead on this, meaning not play politics with it, but work with us to fix the problem.

Senate Republicans I know are trying to do that, right?

They are. Now the challenge is gonna be on the House side.

They’ve linked legislation fixing the immigration crisis to military aid to Ukraine and Israel.

It’s a work in progress. So by the time your listeners hear this conversation, I don’t know what situation or status it’ll be in. But let me just say this: We ought to be able to do everything. We are the United States, and that means fixing problems, such as addressing the immigration system. We must stand by our allies, and that includes giving aid to Ukraine, which has been the subject of a violation of one of the oldest and most important rules and norms — the importance of protecting sovereignty and territorial integrity in the face of Russia’s unprovoked aggression and attempt to use force to change borders. It’s the first war in 70 years in Europe. And the United States must stand by our ally Ukraine on principle, much less to stand strong about what is American leadership to uphold international rules and norms.

And by the way, I’ve now met with over 150 world leaders — presidents, prime ministers, chancellors, and kings. Many of them now look to us to be a leader on so many of these issues. I’ve been in the Oval Office with President Biden, when he’ll get calls from world leaders asking for perspective and advice or support. So when we talk about the United States Congress on an issue like Ukraine or Israel, we should be able to do all of these things and not put conditions on one in exchange for the other.

Let’s turn to Israel, because it’s been more than three months after the horrific attacks of Oct. 7. People are seeing graphic images of devastation and thousands of civilian casualties and Gaza. I’m sure you’re seeing them, too.

Yes, I am.

Many people in your party, especially young people, have called for a ceasefire for months now. And I’m wondering if you could articulate for us why you believe that is not a good idea — if you do believe that?

On Oct. 7, we saw a terrorist organization, Hamas, commit an act of sheer brutality and terrorism. They attacked and slaughtered over 1,200 innocent people, many of them young people attending a concert. Women were raped. 

The barbarism of some of the crimes was almost unspeakable. 

They were using rape as a tool of war. So I will start this conversation by saying that Israel has a right to defend itself. We would, and how [Israel] does so matters. We’ve been very clear that far too many innocent Palestinian civilians have been killed, and that Israel must do more to protect innocent civilians. Humanitarian aid must flow from day one. One of my areas of priority included thinking about the “day after,” because we must stay focused on an eventual two-state solution.

I’m sure you’re well aware that Prime Minister Netanyahu recently said he rejected U.S. calls to scale back Israel’s military action in the Gaza Strip, or to support a Palestinian state after the war. He even said that Israel “must have security control over the entire territory west of the Jordan River, which includes Gaza.” So given those positions, how can the U.S. and Israel come together to solve this, and should aid to Israel be conditional?

So I’ll start with the principles that we are applying to this discussion, which we have been very clear with the Israeli government about, as it relates to the day after — there should be no reoccupation of Gaza. There should be no changing of the territorial boundaries of Gaza. The Palestinians are entitled to an equal measure of Israelis’ security and prosperity.

It doesn’t sound like Netanyahu agrees with that.

We’re the United States of America — I’m telling you our position. And we take our role in this discussion very seriously. There may be disagreements. That doesn’t mean we’re going to change our mind about the principles that are important to be applied to this process, in terms of what a day after should look like. And those principles remain consistent. I believe very strongly that Palestinians are entitled to dignity and self-determination. We believe there must be a two-state solution for the sake of the stability in the region. We believe very strongly, as a first principle, that Israel must be secure; that Hamas must not be in a position to commit terrorist acts against innocent people or the people of Israel in particular.

So, Madam Vice President, should aid be conditional if the prime minister of Israel is stating this? Should that aid not come if there’s not that kind of flexibility that you’re seeking?

We are right now in a position of negotiating with Congress to follow through on a commitment we made for aid. And we are taking it one day at a time, in terms of what is happening in the region and how we are addressing the issue. But that’s where we are right now.

I don’t feel like you really answered my question.

I think I did. 

But do you think it should be conditional? 

That’s not our position right now.

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This conversation has been lightly edited for clarity.